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1668090
registered interest false more like this
date less than 2023-11-07more like thismore than 2023-11-07
answering body
Department for Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept id 29 more like this
answering dept short name Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept sort name Work and Pensions remove filter
hansard heading Poverty remove filter
house id 2 remove filter
legislature
25277
pref label House of Lords more like this
question text To ask His Majesty's Government what assessment they have made of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation report Destitution in the UK 2023, published on 24 October, which found that "approximately 3.8 million people experienced destitution in 2022, including around one million children". more like this
tabling member printed
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath more like this
uin HL39 more like this
answer
answer
is ministerial correction false more like this
date of answer less than 2023-11-14more like thismore than 2023-11-14
answer text <p>This government understands the pressures people are facing with the cost of living. We are providing total support of over £94bn over 2022-23 and 2023-24 to help households and individuals with the rising bills.</p><p> </p><p>Furthermore, government is committed to reducing poverty, including child poverty, and supporting low-income families and has overseen significant falls in absolute poverty since 2009/10.</p><p> </p><p>In 2021/22 there were 1.7 million fewer people in absolute poverty after housing costs than in 2009/10, including 400,000 fewer children, 1 million fewer working age adults and 200,000 fewer pensioners. Rates of absolute poverty after housing costs for individuals in families in receipt of Universal Credit have also fallen by 12ppt since 2019/20.</p><p> </p><p>With almost one million job vacancies across the UK, our focus remains firmly on supporting people, including parents, to move into and progress in work. This approach is based on clear evidence about the importance of employment, particularly where it is full-time, in substantially reducing the risks of poverty. The latest statistics show that in 2021/22 children living in workless households were 5 times more likely to be in absolute poverty, after housing costs, than those where all adults work.</p><p> </p><p>To help people into work, our core Jobcentre offer provides a range of options, including face-to-face time with work coaches and interview assistance. In addition, there is specific support targeted towards young people, people aged 50 plus and job seekers with disabilities or health issues.</p><p> </p><p>To support those who are in work, from 1 April 2023, the National Living Wage (NLW) increased by 9.7% to £10.42 an hour for workers aged 23 and over - the largest ever cash increase for the NLW. In addition, the voluntary in-work progression offer started to roll-out in April 2022. It is now available in all Jobcentres across Great Britain. We estimate that around 1.4m low-paid benefit claimants will be eligible for support to progress into higher-paid work.</p><p> </p><p>To further support parents into work, on 28th June 2023, the maximum monthly amounts that a parent can be reimbursed for their childcare increased by 47%, from £646.35 for one child and £1,108.04 for two or more children to £950.92 and £1,630.15 respectively. Importantly, we can now also provide even more help with upfront childcare costs when parents move into work or increase their hours. This means that a parent who needs this additional financial help can now be provided with funding towards both their first and second set of costs (or increased costs), upfront, thereby easing them into the UC childcare costs cycle.</p>
answering member printed Viscount Younger of Leckie more like this
question first answered
less than 2023-11-14T17:56:52.553Zmore like thismore than 2023-11-14T17:56:52.553Z
answering member
4169
label Biography information for Viscount Younger of Leckie more like this
tabling member
2024
label Biography information for Lord Hunt of Kings Heath more like this
1668166
registered interest false more like this
date less than 2023-11-07more like thismore than 2023-11-07
answering body
Department for Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept id 29 more like this
answering dept short name Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept sort name Work and Pensions remove filter
hansard heading Poverty remove filter
house id 2 remove filter
legislature
25277
pref label House of Lords more like this
question text To ask His Majesty's Government what steps they are taking to tackle destitution in the UK, particularly destitution experienced by children. more like this
tabling member printed
The Marquess of Lothian more like this
uin HL52 more like this
answer
answer
is ministerial correction true more like this
date of answer less than 2023-11-15more like thismore than 2023-11-15
answer text <p>The Government is committed to reducing poverty, including child poverty, and supporting low-income families. We will spend around £276bn through the welfare system in Great Britain in 2023/24 including around £124bn on people of working age and children, and around £152 billion on pensioners. Of this, around £79 billion will be spent on benefits to support disabled people and people with health conditions.</p><p> </p><p>From April, we uprated benefit rates and State Pensions by 10.1%, and in order to increase the number of households who can benefit from these uprating decisions the benefit cap levels also increased by the same amount.</p><p> </p><p>In 2021/22 there were 1.7 million fewer people in absolute poverty after housing costs than in 2009/10, including 400,000 fewer children, 1 million fewer working age adults and 200,000 fewer pensioners.</p><p> </p><p>With almost one million job vacancies across the UK, our focus remains firmly on supporting people, including parents, to move into and progress in work. This approach which is based on clear evidence about the importance of employment - particularly where it is full-time - in substantially reducing the risks of poverty. The latest statistics show that in 2021/22 children living in workless households were 5 times more likely to be in absolute poverty, after housing costs, than those where all adults work.</p><p> </p><p>Through the ambitious package announced at the Spring budget we are delivering measures that are designed to support people to enter work, increase their working hours and extend their working lives.</p><p> </p><p>To help people into work, our core Jobcentre offer provides a range of options, including face-to-face time with work coaches and interview assistance. In addition, there is specific support targeted towards young people, people aged 50 plus and job seekers with disabilities or health issues.</p><p> </p><p>To support those who are in work, from 1 April 2023, the National Living Wage (NLW) increased by 9.7% to £10.42 an hour for workers aged 23 and over - the largest ever cash increase for the NLW. In addition, the voluntary in-work progression offer started to roll-out in April 2022. It is now available in all Jobcentres across Great Britain. We estimate that around 1.4m low-paid benefit claimants will be eligible for support to progress into higher-paid work.</p><p> </p><p>To further support parents into work, on 28<sup>th</sup> June 2023, the maximum monthly amounts that a parent can<del class="ministerial">HL52</del> be reimbursed for their childcare increased by 47%, from £646.35 for one child and £1,108.04 for two or more children to £950.92 and £1,630.15 respectively<strong>.</strong> Importantly, we can now also provide even more help with upfront childcare costs when parents move into work or increase their hours. This means that a parent who needs this additional financial help can now be provided with funding towards both their first and second set of costs (or increased costs), upfront, thereby easing them into the UC childcare costs cycle.</p><p> </p><p>This government understands the pressures people are facing with the cost of living which is why we are providing total support of over £94bn over 2022-23 and 2023-24 to help households and individuals with the rising bills.</p>
answering member printed Viscount Younger of Leckie more like this
question first answered
less than 2023-11-15T14:27:00.267Zmore like thismore than 2023-11-15T14:27:00.267Z
question first ministerially corrected
less than 2023-11-15T16:10:23.327Zmore like thismore than 2023-11-15T16:10:23.327Z
answering member
4169
label Biography information for Viscount Younger of Leckie more like this
previous answer version
743
answering member printed Viscount Younger of Leckie more like this
answering member
4169
label Biography information for Viscount Younger of Leckie more like this
tabling member
259
label Biography information for The Marquess of Lothian more like this
1659265
registered interest false more like this
date less than 2023-09-07more like thismore than 2023-09-07
answering body
Department for Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept id 29 more like this
answering dept short name Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept sort name Work and Pensions remove filter
hansard heading Poverty remove filter
house id 2 remove filter
legislature
25277
pref label House of Lords more like this
question text To ask His Majesty's Government what assessment they have made of the Poverty Strategy Commission’s interim report A New Framework for Tackling Poverty, published on 5 September, and in particular the recommendations that a net rise in benefit awards by 5 per cent would reduce numbers in poverty by 725,000 and a net rise in earnings wound reduce poverty by 515,000. more like this
tabling member printed
The Lord Bishop of Southwark more like this
uin HL10000 more like this
answer
answer
is ministerial correction false more like this
date of answer less than 2023-09-14more like thismore than 2023-09-14
answer text <p>The Department for Work and Pensions has not undertaken any specific assessment but notes that the analysis included in the report is based on the Social Metric Commission’s (SMC) measure of poverty.</p><p> </p><p>The Government accepts that the SMC’s approach offers a more expansive view of inescapable costs, and alternative income sources will add new insight to the understanding of poverty. In March 2023, the Department for Work and Pensions announced plans to resume work developing an experimental measure of poverty based on the SMC’s innovative work. The Government already publishes national statistics on low income using a range of measures.</p><p>The Government’s focus is firmly on supporting people into and to progress in work. Our approach is based on clear evidence about the importance of employment, particularly where it is full-time, in substantially reducing the risks of poverty.  The latest statistics show that working age adults living in workless households were over 7 times more likely to be in absolute poverty after housing costs than working age adults in households where all adults work. To help people into work our core Jobcentre offer provides a range of options, including face-to-face time with work coaches and interview assistance. We are also addressing progression barriers through our comprehensive package of childcare support, our in work progression offer, and changes to the administrative earnings threshold which ensure that more claimants can benefit from work coach support.</p><p>The Government understands the pressures people are facing with the cost of living and is taking action to help. Overall, we are providing total support of over £94bn over 2022-23 and 2023-24 to help households and individuals with the rising cost of bills. From April 2023, everyone who receives a state benefit or pension will have seen their benefit rates increase by 10.1%.</p>
answering member printed Viscount Younger of Leckie more like this
question first answered
less than 2023-09-14T12:43:54.407Zmore like thismore than 2023-09-14T12:43:54.407Z
answering member
4169
label Biography information for Viscount Younger of Leckie more like this
tabling member
4345
label Biography information for The Lord Bishop of Southwark more like this
1625847
registered interest false more like this
date less than 2023-05-03more like thismore than 2023-05-03
answering body
Department for Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept id 29 more like this
answering dept short name Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept sort name Work and Pensions remove filter
hansard heading Poverty remove filter
house id 2 remove filter
legislature
25277
pref label House of Lords more like this
question text To ask His Majesty's Government what assessment they have made of the prediction by the Resolution Foundation in their report The Living Standards Outlook 2023, published in January, that between 2021–22 and 2023–24, an additional 800,000 people will be in absolute poverty. more like this
tabling member printed
Lord Taylor of Warwick more like this
uin HL7659 more like this
answer
answer
is ministerial correction false more like this
date of answer less than 2023-05-17more like thismore than 2023-05-17
answer text <p><strong> </strong></p><p>National Statistics on the number and percentage of people in poverty are published annually in the “Households Below Average Income” publication. The latest statistics published in March 2023 are for the financial period 2021/22.</p><p> </p><p>This Government has overseen significant falls in absolute poverty since 2009/10. There were 1.7 million fewer people in absolute low income (60% of median income) after housing costs in 2021/22 compared to 2009/10, a 4 percentage-point decrease. This includes 400,000 children, 1 million working age individuals and 200,000 pensioners.</p><p> </p><p>The Government is committed to a sustainable, long-term approach to tackling poverty and supporting people on lower incomes. In 2023/24 we will spend around £276 billion through the welfare system in Great Britain including £114 billion on people of working age and children.</p><p> </p><p>The Government understands the pressures people are facing, which is why we are providing total support of over £94bn over 2022-23 and 2023-24 to help households and individuals with the rising cost of living.</p><p> </p><p>For the 2023/24 financial year this includes additional Cost of Living Payments for more than 8 million households on means-tested benefits, 6 million people on disability benefits, and 8 million pensioner households across the UK. The government is maintaining the Energy Price Guarantee at £2,500 until the end of June. This will ensure that households across the UK are supported through the spring while retail energy costs are expected to remain high.</p><p> </p><p>For people who require additional support, whether they receive benefits or not, the Household Support Fund will continue until March 2024. This year long extension allows Local Authorities in England to continue to provide discretionary support to those most in need with the significantly rising cost of living. The Devolved Administrations will receive consequential funding as usual to spend at their discretion.</p>
answering member printed Viscount Younger of Leckie more like this
question first answered
less than 2023-05-17T10:45:55.55Zmore like thismore than 2023-05-17T10:45:55.55Z
answering member
4169
label Biography information for Viscount Younger of Leckie more like this
tabling member
1796
label Biography information for Lord Taylor of Warwick more like this
1417806
registered interest false more like this
date less than 2022-01-28more like thismore than 2022-01-28
answering body
Department for Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept id 29 more like this
answering dept short name Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept sort name Work and Pensions remove filter
hansard heading Poverty remove filter
house id 2 remove filter
legislature
25277
pref label House of Lords more like this
question text To ask Her Majesty's Government what assessment they have made of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation report UK Poverty 2022: The essential guide to understanding poverty in the UK, published on 18 January; and what steps they plan to take, if any, in response to the case for "co-ordinated commitment, effort and action on the intersecting issues and challenges" identified in the report in order to address "deep and persistent poverty" in the UK. more like this
tabling member printed
The Marquess of Lothian more like this
uin HL5769 more like this
answer
answer
is ministerial correction false more like this
date of answer less than 2022-02-11more like thismore than 2022-02-11
answer text <p>The poverty statistics included in the Joseph Rowntree Trust’s report cover the period to 2019/20 and therefore do not help us to understand how low-income households have fared over the last two financial years. The data shows that in 2019/20, household incomes saw their strongest annual growth for nearly 20 years, and that 700,000 fewer people, including 100,000 fewer children, were in absolute poverty before housing costs compared with 2010.</p><p>The Government is committed to a sustainable, long-term approach to tackling poverty.</p> more like this
answering member printed Baroness Stedman-Scott more like this
question first answered
less than 2022-02-11T14:12:00.357Zmore like thismore than 2022-02-11T14:12:00.357Z
answering member
4174
label Biography information for Baroness Stedman-Scott more like this
tabling member
259
label Biography information for The Marquess of Lothian more like this
1144092
registered interest false more like this
date less than 2019-09-03more like thismore than 2019-09-03
answering body
Department for Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept id 29 more like this
answering dept short name Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept sort name Work and Pensions remove filter
hansard heading Poverty remove filter
house id 2 remove filter
legislature
25277
pref label House of Lords more like this
question text To ask Her Majesty's Government, following the report by the Social Metrics Commission Measuring Poverty 2019, published in July, and the appointment of the new Prime Minister on 24 July, what plans they have to revise their strategy for tackling poverty. more like this
tabling member printed
Lord Bird more like this
uin HL17580 more like this
answer
answer
is ministerial correction true more like this
date of answer less than 2019-09-09more like thismore than 2019-09-09
answer text <p><del class="ministerial">It has not proved possible to respond to this question in the time available before Prorogation. Ministers will correspond directly with the Member.</del><ins class="ministerial">The Government is committed to delivering a sustainable, long-term solution to poverty through reforming the welfare system so that it works with the tax system and the Labour market to support employment and higher pay. Promoting full-time work through work incentives are a key feature of this approach, reinforced by the National Living Wage and the rising Personal Tax Allowance, which work together to promote independence from benefits.</ins></p><p><ins class="ministerial">Universal Credit, which is now reaching over 2 million households, has already shown that it is more effective in getting people into work than the legacy benefits it replaces. Nine months into a UC claim, 40% of claimants are working for an employer in a paid role, compared with only 23% at the start of their claim. </ins><br /> <br /><ins class="ministerial"> The number of people in employment has increased by over 3.7 million since 2010. Three-quarters of the growth in employment has been in full-time work which substantially reduces the chances of being in poverty.</ins></p><p><ins class="ministerial">The Government is working with the Social Metrics Commission, and other experts in the field, to develop new experimental statistics which will help us to find new and better ways to analyse poverty in this country. These will be published in 2020 and, in the long-run, could help us target support more effectively.</ins></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p>
answering member printed Baroness Stedman-Scott more like this
question first answered
less than 2019-09-09T15:23:29.557Zmore like thismore than 2019-09-09T15:23:29.557Z
question first ministerially corrected
less than 2019-09-30T14:54:43.533Zmore like thismore than 2019-09-30T14:54:43.533Z
answering member
4174
label Biography information for Baroness Stedman-Scott more like this
previous answer version
134826
answering member printed Baroness Stedman-Scott more like this
answering member
4174
label Biography information for Baroness Stedman-Scott more like this
tabling member
4564
label Biography information for Lord Bird more like this
1144170
registered interest false more like this
date less than 2019-09-03more like thismore than 2019-09-03
answering body
Department for Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept id 29 more like this
answering dept short name Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept sort name Work and Pensions remove filter
hansard heading Poverty remove filter
house id 2 remove filter
legislature
25277
pref label House of Lords more like this
question text To ask Her Majesty's Government why the objectives listed in the departmental plan for the Department for Work and Pensions makes no reference to (1) reducing poverty, and (2) the Sustainable Development Goal on poverty. more like this
tabling member printed
Baroness Lister of Burtersett more like this
uin HL17658 more like this
answer
answer
is ministerial correction true more like this
date of answer less than 2019-09-09more like thismore than 2019-09-09
answer text <p><del class="ministerial">It has not proved possible to respond to this question in the time available before Prorogation. Ministers will correspond directly with the Member.</del></p><p><ins class="ministerial">As clearly set out in the Government’s published response to the Voluntary National Review of the Sustainable Development Goal 1, we are committed to delivering a sustainable, long-term solution to reducing poverty through welfare reforms that ensure that the benefits system works with the tax system and the labour market to support employment and higher pay. There is clear evidence that full-time work dramatically reduces the risk of poverty for working families; for example, there is only a 7% chance of a child being in poverty (relative, after housing costs) if both parents work full-time compared with 66% for children in (two-parent) families with only part-time work. </ins></p><p><ins class="ministerial"><ins class="ministerial"><ins class="ministerial">Although not directly referenced, our approach to reducing poverty is already reflected in our Single Departmental Plan which sets out how we plan to achieve our key strategic objectives including delivering an effective labour market strategy that boosts employment among under-represented and disadvantaged groups and facilitating progression; and consolidating the delivery of Universal Credit so that it works for everyone.</ins></ins></ins></p><p><ins class="ministerial"><ins class="ministerial"><ins class="ministerial"><ins class="ministerial"><ins class="ministerial">Universal Credit, at the heart of our reforms, has already shown that it is more effective in getting people into work than the legacy benefits it replaces. Nine months into a UC claim, 40% of claimants are working for an employer in a paid role, compared with only 23% at the start of their claim. This is a key approach to provide a sustainable solution to reducing poverty.</ins></ins></ins></ins></ins></p><p> </p><p> </p>
answering member printed Baroness Stedman-Scott more like this
question first answered
less than 2019-09-09T15:42:45.083Zmore like thismore than 2019-09-09T15:42:45.083Z
question first ministerially corrected
less than 2019-10-03T13:26:53.287Zmore like thismore than 2019-10-03T13:26:53.287Z
answering member
4174
label Biography information for Baroness Stedman-Scott more like this
previous answer version
134986
answering member printed Baroness Stedman-Scott more like this
answering member
4174
label Biography information for Baroness Stedman-Scott more like this
tabling member
4234
label Biography information for Baroness Lister of Burtersett more like this
1141922
registered interest false more like this
date less than 2019-07-24more like thismore than 2019-07-24
answering body
Department for Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept id 29 more like this
answering dept short name Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept sort name Work and Pensions remove filter
hansard heading Poverty remove filter
house id 2 remove filter
legislature
25277
pref label House of Lords more like this
question text To ask Her Majesty's Government what assessment they have made of (1) the National School Breakfast Programme feeding an estimated 280,000 children, (2) the number of pupils receiving Free School Meals, (3) the incidence of food banks, food pantries and similar help in kind, throughout England and Wales; and what consideration they are giving, as a result of any such assessment, to reviewing their policies to address destitution, food and fuel poverty and ensure sufficient services to prevent poverty. more like this
tabling member printed
Lord Hylton more like this
uin HL17466 more like this
answer
answer
is ministerial correction false more like this
date of answer less than 2019-08-05more like thismore than 2019-08-05
answer text <p>The Government is committed to tackling poverty in all its forms by building a strong economy and a benefit system that supports employment and higher pay. A child growing up in a home where all adults are working is around 5 times less likely to be in poverty than a child in a household where nobody works. Since 2010, there are around 1 million fewer workless households and 667,000 fewer children in such households.</p><p>To help make sure every child gets the best start in life, the Department for Education is investing up to £26 million in a programme to establish or improve breakfast clubs in over 1,700 schools, targeting most disadvantaged areas. The programme’s effectiveness will be reviewed once it concludes next year. Additionally, over 1.2 million of the most disadvantaged children receive a free school meal.</p><p>The Government has not made an assessment of the incidence of food banks or similar charity-based provision in England and Wales. However, new questions have been added to the Family Resources Survey to develop a food insecurity measure from 2021 to help better understand the drivers of food insecurity and identify which groups are most at risk.</p><p>This Government spend more on family benefits than any other country in the G7, at 3.5% of GDP (OECD, 2015 data), demonstrating a commitment to providing a strong safety net for those that need it.</p>
answering member printed Baroness Stedman-Scott more like this
question first answered
less than 2019-08-05T15:49:45.287Zmore like thismore than 2019-08-05T15:49:45.287Z
answering member
4174
label Biography information for Baroness Stedman-Scott more like this
tabling member
2018
label Biography information for Lord Hylton more like this
1140015
registered interest false more like this
date less than 2019-07-17more like thismore than 2019-07-17
answering body
Department for Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept id 29 more like this
answering dept short name Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept sort name Work and Pensions remove filter
hansard heading Poverty remove filter
house id 2 remove filter
legislature
25277
pref label House of Lords more like this
question text To ask Her Majesty's Government what plans they have (1) to review their policies to address poverty, and (2) to ensure sufficient services for and assistance to those at risk of destitution. more like this
tabling member printed
Lord Hylton more like this
uin HL17250 more like this
answer
answer
is ministerial correction false more like this
date of answer less than 2019-07-23more like thismore than 2019-07-23
answer text <p>This Government is committed to a sustainable solution to poverty in all its forms, by building a strong economy and a benefit system that supports employment and higher pay. We have acted to increase the incomes of the poorest in society, for example, by increasing the National Living Wage and announcing a £4.5 billion cash boost to Universal Credit in the last Budget. We are also working with the Social Metrics Commission, and other experts in the field, to develop new experimental statistics which will help us to find new and better ways to analyse poverty in this country. These will be published in 2020 and, in the long-run, could help us target support more effectively.</p><p> </p><p>Through our Jobcentre network, we are taking wider action to support vulnerable claimants. Work coaches are upskilled to recognise and help claimants with a wide range of complex employment barriers and work with external partners to offer individualised, specialist support to help people to turn their lives around.</p>
answering member printed Baroness Buscombe more like this
question first answered
less than 2019-07-23T13:46:36.207Zmore like thismore than 2019-07-23T13:46:36.207Z
answering member
3349
label Biography information for Baroness Buscombe more like this
tabling member
2018
label Biography information for Lord Hylton more like this
1134313
registered interest false more like this
date less than 2019-06-24more like thismore than 2019-06-24
answering body
Department for Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept id 29 more like this
answering dept short name Work and Pensions more like this
answering dept sort name Work and Pensions remove filter
hansard heading Poverty remove filter
house id 2 remove filter
legislature
25277
pref label House of Lords more like this
question text To ask Her Majesty's Government, further to the answer by Baroness Buscombe on 19 June (HL Deb, col 771), on what occasions the UN Special Rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights was "not keen to engage" with UK officials. more like this
tabling member printed
Baroness Lister of Burtersett more like this
uin HL16598 more like this
answer
answer
is ministerial correction false more like this
date of answer less than 2019-07-08more like thismore than 2019-07-08
answer text <p>Department for Work and Pensions officials liaised extensively with the Special Rapporteur’s office over the arrangements for his visit to the UK last November. From the outset, his staff were clear that Professor Alston’s priority was to secure meetings with UK Government Ministers.</p><p> </p><p>DWP proposed meetings and round tables with senior officials across the relevant departments so that topics, including health, housing and welfare benefits, could be explored in more detail. The scope and time available for these meetings was significantly curtailed as the Special Rapporteur’s office asked that meetings with parliamentary committees and other public bodies, for example the National Audit Office, be prioritised over meetings with UK Government officials.</p> more like this
answering member printed Baroness Buscombe more like this
question first answered
less than 2019-07-08T13:50:34.7Zmore like thismore than 2019-07-08T13:50:34.7Z
answering member
3349
label Biography information for Baroness Buscombe more like this
tabling member
4234
label Biography information for Baroness Lister of Burtersett more like this