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156522
star this property registered interest false more like this
star this property date less than 2014-11-19more like thismore than 2014-11-19
star this property answering body
Leader of the House of Lords more like this
star this property answering dept id 92 more like this
star this property answering dept short name
star this property answering dept sort name Leader of the House of Lords more like this
star this property hansard heading Written Questions more like this
star this property house id 2 more like this
star this property legislature
25277
star this property pref label House of Lords more like this
unstar this property question text To ask the Leader of the House what steps she takes to ensure the quality of answers to parliamentary questions; and what assessment she has made of the length of time taken to provide them. more like this
star this property tabling member printed
Lord Laird more like this
star this property uin HL2945 more like this
star this property answer
answer
star this property is ministerial correction false more like this
star this property date of answer less than 2014-12-03more like thismore than 2014-12-03
unstar this property answer text <p>It is the responsibility of individual ministers to decide what answers they give to Questions for Written Answer (QWAs), and they are of course accountable to the House for those answers. That direct accountability is important: that is why Ministers in this House must provide personally signed answers to members. The Ministerial Code states that <em>“It is of paramount importance that Ministers give accurate and truthful information to Parliament”.<br><br></em>As Leader of the House I have a particular responsibility to encourage Ministers and their departments to be punctual in answering written questions. My office immediately approach departments who have not responded to questions after 10 working days, and remain in contact with them until the questions are answered. At the end of this Session I will publish data on the annual performance of departments on their promptness in dealing with QWAs.</p><p> </p> more like this
star this property answering member printed Baroness Stowell of Beeston more like this
star this property question first answered
less than 2014-12-03T12:49:49.887Zmore like thismore than 2014-12-03T12:49:49.887Z
unstar this property answering member
4205
star this property label Biography information for Baroness Stowell of Beeston more like this
star this property tabling member
2479
unstar this property label Biography information for Lord Laird more like this
166112
star this property registered interest false more like this
star this property date less than 2014-11-25more like thismore than 2014-11-25
star this property answering body
The Lord Chairman of Committees more like this
star this property answering dept id 200 more like this
star this property answering dept short name
star this property answering dept sort name Chairman of Committees (HoL) more like this
star this property hansard heading Insurance Bill (HL) Special Public Bill Committee (HL) more like this
star this property house id 2 more like this
star this property legislature
25277
star this property pref label House of Lords more like this
unstar this property question text To ask the Chairman of Committees what will be the remuneration of the specialist adviser to the Special Public Bill Committee on the Insurance Bill. more like this
star this property tabling member printed
Lord Palmer more like this
star this property uin HL3170 more like this
star this property answer
answer
star this property is ministerial correction false more like this
star this property date of answer less than 2014-12-09more like thismore than 2014-12-09
unstar this property answer text <p>Specialist advisers to House of Lords Committees are typically paid a daily rate of between £240-280 pro rata. Certain expenses, including travel, are also met. The specialist adviser to the Special Public Bill Committee on the Insurance Bill will be remunerated within these parameters. I am grateful for the valuable public service provided by those people who act as specialist advisers to House of Lords Committees.</p> more like this
star this property answering member printed Lord Sewel more like this
star this property question first answered
less than 2014-12-09T17:52:38.67Zmore like thismore than 2014-12-09T17:52:38.67Z
unstar this property answering member
2124
star this property label Biography information for Lord Sewel more like this
star this property tabling member
3192
unstar this property label Biography information for Lord Palmer more like this
167934
star this property registered interest false more like this
star this property date less than 2014-12-04more like thismore than 2014-12-04
star this property answering body
The Lord Chairman of Committees more like this
star this property answering dept id 200 more like this
star this property answering dept short name
star this property answering dept sort name Chairman of Committees (HoL) more like this
star this property hansard heading Abingdon Green more like this
star this property house id 2 more like this
star this property legislature
25277
star this property pref label House of Lords more like this
unstar this property question text To ask the Chairman of Committees how much income is received per year for permissions to the media for temporary structures on College Green. more like this
star this property tabling member printed
Lord Hylton more like this
star this property uin HL3458 more like this
star this property answer
answer
star this property is ministerial correction false more like this
star this property date of answer less than 2014-12-15more like thismore than 2014-12-15
unstar this property answer text <p>Abingdon Green is owned by the House of Commons, although its utilisation is managed by Black Rod. The House of Lords does not receive any income for temporary structures used by the media on College Green.</p> more like this
star this property answering member printed Lord Sewel more like this
star this property question first answered
less than 2014-12-15T12:31:45.533Zmore like thismore than 2014-12-15T12:31:45.533Z
unstar this property answering member
2124
star this property label Biography information for Lord Sewel more like this
star this property tabling member
2018
unstar this property label Biography information for Lord Hylton more like this
169684
star this property registered interest false more like this
star this property date less than 2014-12-11more like thismore than 2014-12-11
star this property answering body
The Lord Chairman of Committees more like this
star this property answering dept id 200 more like this
star this property answering dept short name
star this property answering dept sort name Chairman of Committees (HoL) more like this
star this property hansard heading House of Lords: Catering more like this
star this property house id 2 more like this
star this property legislature
25277
star this property pref label House of Lords more like this
unstar this property question text To ask the Chairman of Committees what is the policy of the House of Lords on the disposal of unwanted food from catering outlets. more like this
star this property tabling member printed
Lord Empey more like this
star this property uin HL3671 more like this
star this property answer
answer
star this property is ministerial correction false more like this
star this property date of answer less than 2014-12-17more like thismore than 2014-12-17
unstar this property answer text <p>Catering and Retail Services seeks to reduce the amount of food waste generated through careful menu management and the use, where appropriate, of pre-prepared ingredients. Food waste is controlled in each outlet through reuse in other outlets. Approximately 50% of unsold prepared food products are either recycled through other outlets or reused (subject to food safety procedures). Typical examples of this include roast beef, chicken or baked ham being used for cold meat platters or as ingredients for other dishes, and vegetables being used as ingredients for soups.</p><p> </p><p>The estimated food waste generated by House of Lords outlets each month for the year 2013–14 is shown in the table below.</p><table><tbody><tr><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p><strong> Month</strong></p></td><td><p><strong>Total cost of waste (£)</strong></p></td><td><p> </p></td></tr><tr><td><p>April 2013</p></td><td><p>2,183.99</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>May 2013</p></td><td><p>2,608.50</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>June 2013</p></td><td><p>3,933.41</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>July 2013</p></td><td><p>5,381.78</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>August/September 2013</p></td><td><p>1,775.02</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>October 2013</p></td><td><p>4,370.16</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>November 2013</p></td><td><p>4,507.32</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>December 2013</p></td><td><p>3,545.60</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>January 2014</p></td><td><p>5,416.39</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>February 2014</p></td><td><p>4,787.02</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>March 2014</p></td><td><p>6,359.75</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p><strong>Total</strong></p></td><td><p><strong>44,868.95</strong></p></td><td><p> </p></td></tr></tbody></table><p> </p><p>The above figures represent prepared unsold food at cost value that cannot be reused or recycled. To put this into perspective, total food waste for the period above is 4.5% of total food consumption. The highest proportion of food waste is from the cafeterias and self service outlets.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Unsold food waste is either bagged or passed through a commercial waste disposal unit which extracts most of the water content, resulting in a dry mass which is bagged. The food waste is collected daily by a waste contractor and sent to a local facility for anaerobic digestion. No food waste produced in the House of Lords is sent to landfill.</p>
star this property answering member printed Lord Sewel more like this
star this property grouped question UIN
HL3672 more like this
HL3673 more like this
star this property question first answered
less than 2014-12-17T17:42:38.227Zmore like thismore than 2014-12-17T17:42:38.227Z
unstar this property answering member
2124
star this property label Biography information for Lord Sewel more like this
star this property tabling member
4216
unstar this property label Biography information for Lord Empey more like this
169685
star this property registered interest false more like this
star this property date less than 2014-12-11more like thismore than 2014-12-11
star this property answering body
The Lord Chairman of Committees more like this
star this property answering dept id 200 more like this
star this property answering dept short name
star this property answering dept sort name Chairman of Committees (HoL) more like this
star this property hansard heading House of Lords: Catering more like this
star this property house id 2 more like this
star this property legislature
25277
star this property pref label House of Lords more like this
unstar this property question text To ask the Chairman of Committees what was the monetary value of surplus food disposed of by House of Lords catering outlets in the last year for which figures are available. more like this
star this property tabling member printed
Lord Empey more like this
star this property uin HL3672 more like this
star this property answer
answer
star this property is ministerial correction false more like this
star this property date of answer less than 2014-12-17more like thismore than 2014-12-17
unstar this property answer text <p>Catering and Retail Services seeks to reduce the amount of food waste generated through careful menu management and the use, where appropriate, of pre-prepared ingredients. Food waste is controlled in each outlet through reuse in other outlets. Approximately 50% of unsold prepared food products are either recycled through other outlets or reused (subject to food safety procedures). Typical examples of this include roast beef, chicken or baked ham being used for cold meat platters or as ingredients for other dishes, and vegetables being used as ingredients for soups.</p><p> </p><p>The estimated food waste generated by House of Lords outlets each month for the year 2013–14 is shown in the table below.</p><table><tbody><tr><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p><strong> Month</strong></p></td><td><p><strong>Total cost of waste (£)</strong></p></td><td><p> </p></td></tr><tr><td><p>April 2013</p></td><td><p>2,183.99</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>May 2013</p></td><td><p>2,608.50</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>June 2013</p></td><td><p>3,933.41</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>July 2013</p></td><td><p>5,381.78</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>August/September 2013</p></td><td><p>1,775.02</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>October 2013</p></td><td><p>4,370.16</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>November 2013</p></td><td><p>4,507.32</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>December 2013</p></td><td><p>3,545.60</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>January 2014</p></td><td><p>5,416.39</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>February 2014</p></td><td><p>4,787.02</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>March 2014</p></td><td><p>6,359.75</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p><strong>Total</strong></p></td><td><p><strong>44,868.95</strong></p></td><td><p> </p></td></tr></tbody></table><p> </p><p>The above figures represent prepared unsold food at cost value that cannot be reused or recycled. To put this into perspective, total food waste for the period above is 4.5% of total food consumption. The highest proportion of food waste is from the cafeterias and self service outlets.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Unsold food waste is either bagged or passed through a commercial waste disposal unit which extracts most of the water content, resulting in a dry mass which is bagged. The food waste is collected daily by a waste contractor and sent to a local facility for anaerobic digestion. No food waste produced in the House of Lords is sent to landfill.</p>
star this property answering member printed Lord Sewel more like this
star this property grouped question UIN
HL3671 more like this
HL3673 more like this
star this property question first answered
less than 2014-12-17T17:42:38.83Zmore like thismore than 2014-12-17T17:42:38.83Z
unstar this property answering member
2124
star this property label Biography information for Lord Sewel more like this
star this property tabling member
4216
unstar this property label Biography information for Lord Empey more like this
169686
star this property registered interest false more like this
star this property date less than 2014-12-11more like thismore than 2014-12-11
star this property answering body
The Lord Chairman of Committees more like this
star this property answering dept id 200 more like this
star this property answering dept short name
star this property answering dept sort name Chairman of Committees (HoL) more like this
star this property hansard heading House of Lords: Catering more like this
star this property house id 2 more like this
star this property legislature
25277
star this property pref label House of Lords more like this
unstar this property question text To ask the Chairman of Committees what is the mechanism employed by the House of Lords to dispose of surplus food from House of Lords catering outlets. more like this
star this property tabling member printed
Lord Empey more like this
star this property uin HL3673 more like this
star this property answer
answer
star this property is ministerial correction false more like this
star this property date of answer less than 2014-12-17more like thismore than 2014-12-17
unstar this property answer text <p>Catering and Retail Services seeks to reduce the amount of food waste generated through careful menu management and the use, where appropriate, of pre-prepared ingredients. Food waste is controlled in each outlet through reuse in other outlets. Approximately 50% of unsold prepared food products are either recycled through other outlets or reused (subject to food safety procedures). Typical examples of this include roast beef, chicken or baked ham being used for cold meat platters or as ingredients for other dishes, and vegetables being used as ingredients for soups.</p><p> </p><p>The estimated food waste generated by House of Lords outlets each month for the year 2013–14 is shown in the table below.</p><table><tbody><tr><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p><strong> Month</strong></p></td><td><p><strong>Total cost of waste (£)</strong></p></td><td><p> </p></td></tr><tr><td><p>April 2013</p></td><td><p>2,183.99</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>May 2013</p></td><td><p>2,608.50</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>June 2013</p></td><td><p>3,933.41</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>July 2013</p></td><td><p>5,381.78</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>August/September 2013</p></td><td><p>1,775.02</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>October 2013</p></td><td><p>4,370.16</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>November 2013</p></td><td><p>4,507.32</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>December 2013</p></td><td><p>3,545.60</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>January 2014</p></td><td><p>5,416.39</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>February 2014</p></td><td><p>4,787.02</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p>March 2014</p></td><td><p>6,359.75</p></td><td> </td></tr><tr><td><p><strong>Total</strong></p></td><td><p><strong>44,868.95</strong></p></td><td><p> </p></td></tr></tbody></table><p> </p><p>The above figures represent prepared unsold food at cost value that cannot be reused or recycled. To put this into perspective, total food waste for the period above is 4.5% of total food consumption. The highest proportion of food waste is from the cafeterias and self service outlets.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Unsold food waste is either bagged or passed through a commercial waste disposal unit which extracts most of the water content, resulting in a dry mass which is bagged. The food waste is collected daily by a waste contractor and sent to a local facility for anaerobic digestion. No food waste produced in the House of Lords is sent to landfill.</p>
star this property answering member printed Lord Sewel more like this
star this property grouped question UIN
HL3671 more like this
HL3672 more like this
star this property question first answered
less than 2014-12-17T17:42:38.97Zmore like thismore than 2014-12-17T17:42:38.97Z
unstar this property answering member
2124
star this property label Biography information for Lord Sewel more like this
star this property tabling member
4216
unstar this property label Biography information for Lord Empey more like this
170871
star this property registered interest false more like this
star this property date less than 2014-12-16more like thismore than 2014-12-16
star this property answering body
The Lord Chairman of Committees more like this
star this property answering dept id 200 more like this
star this property answering dept short name
star this property answering dept sort name Chairman of Committees (HoL) more like this
star this property hansard heading Peers more like this
star this property house id 2 more like this
star this property legislature
25277
star this property pref label House of Lords more like this
unstar this property question text To ask the Chairman of Committees (1) how many Members of the House of Lords are over 70 years of age in each of the following categories: Conservative; Labour; Liberal Democrat; other, and (2) on average, how many Members attend the House each week. more like this
star this property tabling member printed
Lord Hoyle more like this
star this property uin HL3818 more like this
star this property answer
answer
star this property is ministerial correction false more like this
star this property date of answer less than 2015-01-05more like thismore than 2015-01-05
unstar this property answer text <p>There are 128 Conservative Peers, 122 Labour Peers, 45 Liberal Democrat Peers, 101 Crossbench Peers and 19 other Peers over 70 years of age.</p><p>The Administration does not collect average weekly attendance figures but the average daily attendance in this Session is 479.</p> more like this
star this property answering member printed Lord Sewel more like this
star this property question first answered
less than 2015-01-05T12:38:40.34Zmore like thismore than 2015-01-05T12:38:40.34Z
unstar this property answering member
2124
star this property label Biography information for Lord Sewel more like this
star this property tabling member
1000
unstar this property label Biography information for Lord Hoyle more like this
170930
star this property registered interest false more like this
star this property date less than 2014-12-17more like thismore than 2014-12-17
star this property answering body
The Lord Chairman of Committees more like this
star this property answering dept id 200 more like this
star this property answering dept short name
star this property answering dept sort name Chairman of Committees (HoL) more like this
star this property hansard heading House of Lords: Catering more like this
star this property house id 2 more like this
star this property legislature
25277
star this property pref label House of Lords more like this
unstar this property question text To ask the Chairman of Committees what has been (1) the expenditure, and (2) the profit or deficit, for the years 2012–13 and 2013–14 of each catering outlet in the House of Lords. more like this
star this property tabling member printed
Lord Avebury more like this
star this property uin HL3837 more like this
star this property answer
answer
star this property is ministerial correction false more like this
star this property date of answer less than 2015-01-06more like thismore than 2015-01-06
unstar this property answer text <p>The turnover, expenditure and profit or loss of each Catering and Retail Service outlet in 2012-13 and 2013-14 are set out in the tables below.</p><p> </p><p><strong>2012-13</strong></p><p> </p><table><tbody><tr><td><p><strong>Outlet</strong></p></td><td><p><strong>Turnover (£)</strong></p></td><td><p><strong>Expenditure (£)</strong></p></td><td><p><strong>Profit/loss (£)</strong></p></td></tr><tr><td><p>Peers' Dining Room</p></td><td><p>491,364</p></td><td><p>1,308,224</p></td><td><p>-816,860</p></td></tr><tr><td><p>Barry Room</p></td><td><p>238,267</p></td><td><p>498,307</p></td><td><p>-260,040</p></td></tr><tr><td><p>Home Room</p></td><td><p>44,838</p></td><td><p>182,122</p></td><td><p>-137,284</p></td></tr><tr><td><p>River Restaurant</p></td><td><p>257,041</p></td><td><p>689,116</p></td><td><p>-432,075</p></td></tr><tr><td><p>Bishops Bar</p></td><td><p>51,399</p></td><td><p>111,197</p></td><td><p>-59,798</p></td></tr><tr><td><p>Peers Guest Room</p></td><td><p>59,952</p></td><td><p>56,524</p></td><td><p>3,428</p></td></tr><tr><td><p>Lords Bar</p></td><td><p>99,612</p></td><td><p>130,914</p></td><td><p>-31,302</p></td></tr><tr><td><p>Millbank House</p></td><td><p>90,139</p></td><td><p>205,036</p></td><td><p>-114,897</p></td></tr></tbody></table><p> </p><p><strong>2013-14</strong></p><table><tbody><tr><td><p><strong>Outlet</strong></p></td><td><p><strong>Turnover (£)</strong></p></td><td><p><strong>Expenditure (£)</strong></p></td><td><p><strong>Profit/loss (£)</strong></p></td></tr><tr><td><p>Peers' Dining Room</p></td><td><p>554,236</p></td><td><p>1,441,232</p></td><td><p>-886,996</p></td></tr><tr><td><p>Barry Room</p></td><td><p>204,882</p></td><td><p>466,362</p></td><td><p>-261,480</p></td></tr><tr><td><p>Home Room</p></td><td><p>29,503</p></td><td><p>163,502</p></td><td><p>-133,999</p></td></tr><tr><td><p>River Restaurant</p></td><td><p>258,457</p></td><td><p>703,978</p></td><td><p>-445,521</p></td></tr><tr><td><p>Bishops Bar</p></td><td><p>60,090</p></td><td><p>125,399</p></td><td><p>-65,310</p></td></tr><tr><td><p>Peers Guest Room</p></td><td><p>60,045</p></td><td><p>75,335</p></td><td><p>-15,290</p></td></tr><tr><td><p>Lords Bar</p></td><td><p>106,561</p></td><td><p>102,746</p></td><td><p>3,815</p></td></tr><tr><td><p>Millbank House</p></td><td><p>91,430</p></td><td><p>240,236</p></td><td><p>-148,806</p></td></tr></tbody></table><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p>
star this property answering member printed Lord Sewel more like this
star this property question first answered
less than 2015-01-06T14:28:32.827Zmore like thismore than 2015-01-06T14:28:32.827Z
unstar this property answering member
2124
star this property label Biography information for Lord Sewel more like this
star this property tabling member
1665
unstar this property label Biography information for Lord Avebury more like this
172628
star this property registered interest false more like this
star this property date less than 2015-01-07more like thismore than 2015-01-07
star this property answering body
The Lord Chairman of Committees more like this
star this property answering dept id 200 more like this
star this property answering dept short name
star this property answering dept sort name Chairman of Committees (HoL) more like this
star this property hansard heading House of Lords: Work Experience more like this
star this property house id 2 more like this
star this property legislature
25277
star this property pref label House of Lords more like this
unstar this property question text To ask the Chairman of Committees how many internships are offered by the House of Lords Administration. more like this
star this property tabling member printed
Lord Storey more like this
star this property uin HL3962 more like this
star this property answer
answer
star this property is ministerial correction true more like this
star this property date of answer less than 2015-01-21more like thismore than 2015-01-21
unstar this property answer text <p><del class="ministerial">The House of Lords Administration offers three internships: one in the Committee Office and two in the library. These posts are salaried. In addition, the Administration offers an apprenticeship in the library and up to 24 work experience placements for school students.</del></p><p><ins class="ministerial">The House of Lords Administration does not offer any internships. The three posts erroneously identified as internships are Parliamentary Office of Science and Technology (POST) fellowships usually for PhD students, funded by the UK Research Councils, learned societies and charities. Further details of that scheme are available from the Parliamentary website: <a href="http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/offices/bicameral/post/fellowships/" target="_blank">http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/offices/bicameral/post/fellowships/</a></ins></p><p> </p> more like this
star this property answering member printed Lord Sewel more like this
star this property question first answered
less than 2015-01-21T15:25:47.057Zmore like thismore than 2015-01-21T15:25:47.057Z
star this property question first ministerially corrected
less than 2015-02-03T17:40:13.463Zmore like thismore than 2015-02-03T17:40:13.463Z
unstar this property answering member
2124
star this property label Biography information for Lord Sewel more like this
star this property previous answer version
39538
star this property answering member printed Lord Sewel more like this
star this property answering member
2124
star this property label Biography information for Lord Sewel more like this
star this property tabling member
4238
unstar this property label Biography information for Lord Storey more like this
173020
star this property registered interest false more like this
star this property date less than 2015-01-12more like thismore than 2015-01-12
star this property answering body
The Lord Chairman of Committees more like this
star this property answering dept id 200 more like this
star this property answering dept short name
star this property answering dept sort name Chairman of Committees (HoL) more like this
star this property hansard heading House of Lords: Restaurants more like this
star this property house id 2 more like this
star this property legislature
25277
star this property pref label House of Lords more like this
unstar this property question text To ask the Chairman of Committees why new chairs have been placed in the River Restaurant; how much they cost; whether estimates were obtained for the cost of chairs with and without the Portcullis; what happened to the old chairs; and what was the salvage value of the old chairs. more like this
star this property tabling member printed
Lord Palmer more like this
star this property uin HL4092 more like this
star this property answer
answer
star this property is ministerial correction false more like this
star this property date of answer less than 2015-01-22more like thismore than 2015-01-22
unstar this property answer text <p>The chairs recently placed in the River Restaurant were previously in storage and so there was no cost in this financial year. The new chairs provide greater back support than the benches formerly used. Those benches have been placed into storage; no estimate has been made of their salvage value.</p><p> </p> more like this
star this property answering member printed Lord Sewel more like this
star this property question first answered
less than 2015-01-22T11:51:35.787Zmore like thismore than 2015-01-22T11:51:35.787Z
unstar this property answering member
2124
star this property label Biography information for Lord Sewel more like this
star this property tabling member
3192
unstar this property label Biography information for Lord Palmer more like this